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Vtec Clubman Help

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Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:17 am

I have a clubby estate.. just put a 1275 in my mini and doesnt really excite me. !!!Blasphemer!!!. want a sleeper.. so I have the estate.. and a vtec civic d15 engine 130hp. so i have engine box loom dash clocks everything there.. I was Wondering anyone who has done one Give me advice.. Or even Perhaps Know someone will do the conversion for me and able to confirm a price.. I mainly want to know in Dumbed down terms exactly what I have to do to do a conversion and just how much work is really involved.. and can anyone tell me.. can you adapt the mini subframe to work or do you need to buy one specially.. if so can you buy a draft plan to make subframe as i have a very talented welder I know could make it for me at fraction of cost... Thanks in advance Guys



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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by Kriss » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:42 pm


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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:26 pm


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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by Underhauled » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:26 pm

In fairness that dvd explains nothing. I bought it too. That's based on the watsons kit which needs an extended front a metro frame and increases your track width.

Get yourself over to the 16v mini club website and start reading the Honda build section. When you work out your budget, double it and you'll have the actual cost. No one will give you designs for a subframe for some reason.

Other good sites to check out are allspeed engineering and superfastminis.com.

In your favour though the d series conversion is one of the easiest of the Honda and leaves good clearance for radiators etc.

Enjoy.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by Kriss » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:33 am

It’s clubman, so no extended front needed, and I think watsons full subframe kit @ sixteen hundred quid is quite a good deal.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by Underhauled » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:45 pm

Kriss wrote:It’s clubman, so no extended front needed, and I think watsons full subframe kit @ sixteen hundred quid is quite a good deal.
It is but personally I would rather keep the mini track width. I helped a friend put a watsons frame into his round nose and while a good kit it still needed fettling to fit right as they all do I suppose.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:34 am

Underhauled wrote:In fairness that dvd explains nothing. I bought it too. That's based on the watsons kit which needs an extended front a metro frame and increases your track width.

Get yourself over to the 16v mini club website and start reading the Honda build section. When you work out your budget, double it and you'll have the actual cost. No one will give you designs for a subframe for some reason.

Other good sites to check out are allspeed engineering and superfastminis.com.

In your favour though the d series conversion is one of the easiest of the Honda and leaves good clearance for radiators etc.

Enjoy.
Underhauled wrote:In fairness that dvd explains nothing. I bought it too. That's based on the watsons kit which needs an extended front a metro frame and increases your track width.

Get yourself over to the 16v mini club website and start reading the Honda build section. When you work out your budget, double it and you'll have the actual cost. No one will give you designs for a subframe for some reason.

Other good sites to check out are allspeed engineering and superfastminis.com.

In your favour though the d series conversion is one of the easiest of the Honda and leaves good clearance for radiators etc.

Enjoy.
Thanks So much really Good advice.. well the Budget.. is as low as can be or as high as needed lol.. think that 1600 for a subframe is extortionate to be fair.. I have a guy will make for very little but then id need to know what i need.. i.e does the mini use old shocks breaks etc.. or is all that honda equip.. if i could adapt a mini suubframe by cutting and welding mounts on be ideal.. otherwise id need dimensions to make one.. ill have to look well into the build threads on those sites and see what it entails there.. thanks again

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by aidstap » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:58 pm

When your finished your build and you look back you'll probably realise that €1600 was the least of your worries, I know I'm not really the person to ask as I've spent enough to buy a very nice new car and its still not really finished.

If i could give you some advise it would be to think about what you really want before you start and stick to that goal, changing your mind can get very expensive.
Also buy cheap buy twice is usually true.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by Underhauled » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:15 pm

Noone will give you dimensions. You'll have to custom make the frame to suit your car on the day. There are reams of pages of examples out there but not a measuring tape anywhere.

You can use standard mini suspension running gear, mgf Honda whatever you want really depending on skill and budget and how you want the car to look.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by Kriss » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:59 pm

Underhauled wrote:Noone will give you dimensions.
Even if you had them, how you gonna work it out in 3D? You would need some kind of jig to space everything out. In diy environment the engine acts as a jig. You position it where you want, then build the frame around. It is easier to use stock subframe as a base. At least in case of mini it is. Mounting towers in mini connect subframe to the car but also are part of front suspension assembly, so keeping them makes things much easier. Still thou, it’s a complex task, and if you think of hiring someone to do it for you, in the end it will probably cost more than buying off the shelf kit.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:51 pm

aidstap wrote:When your finished your build and you look back you'll probably realise that €1600 was the least of your worries, I know I'm not really the person to ask as I've spent enough to buy a very nice new car and its still not really finished.

If i could give you some advise it would be to think about what you really want before you start and stick to that goal, changing your mind can get very expensive.
Also buy cheap buy twice is usually true.
Yes I looked at the Subframe and Noticed in the kit are wishbones and drive shafts as well as mounts.. im sure if i had to have these made or buy.. would cost half the price of the kit.. therefore the entire cost of the subframe kit now seems more reasonable... Am I Naive in thinking that I shouldnt have much cost outside of the Subframe kit.. Everyone is asking Budget.. but i have a complete Civic.. so everything I need there I have the clubman.. so is it not just a Case of buying the subframe kit to allow me to install the v tec.. Visions of you all rolling Round in Laughter now lol

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by aidstap » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:22 pm

Niave? yes probably but i think if most of us who have done an engine conversion knew what we were getting into then i dont know how many would go through with it.
In theory you dont need anything else apart from the bits you have but some things are more difficult than others,

How complete is the car your starting with? Mine ended up being a bare shell rebuild so a fair share of the money i spent was on things not related to the Vtec conversion.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:58 pm

aidstap wrote:Niave? yes probably but i think if most of us who have done an engine conversion knew what we were getting into then i dont know how many would go through with it.
In theory you dont need anything else apart from the bits you have but some things are more difficult than others,

How complete is the car your starting with? Mine ended up being a bare shell rebuild so a fair share of the money i spent was on things not related to the Vtec conversion.
Yes bare shell I know i have to allow for paint bodywork interior and prep of parts subframes brakes hubs etc.. But my query was would the Vtec conversion cost more than the subframe kit.. I dont really see why it should cost any more as i have the complete driving civic here for any bits needed.. Some good advice from guys here.. yes I know it will need money spent on all the above. just trying to clarify that id get away with the price of the Vtec kit and thats all id need?

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by aidstap » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:13 pm

You'll need some sort of eletric fuel pump the mpi mini one will do but if you using a clubby estate an external inline pump would be preferable,
I assume you'll use the civic clocks if so you'll need a speed convertor like healtec to make it read right and something for the fuel sender.
Wiring wise you can use the full honda loom or join it into the mini wiring.
You'll probably need a different radiator.
Whats your plan for drive shafts?
The suspension is something to think about 2 as depending on the frame you use you may need different suspension.
What year is the estate?
In theory there's not a lot to it but there are always little things that take time and money.
With the donor and frame they should be only big purchases everything else should be small enough but can add up.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:01 pm

aidstap wrote:You'll need some sort of eletric fuel pump the mpi mini one will do but if you using a clubby estate an external inline pump would be preferable,
I assume you'll use the civic clocks if so you'll need a speed convertor like healtec to make it read right and something for the fuel sender.
Wiring wise you can use the full honda loom or join it into the mini wiring.
You'll probably need a different radiator.
Whats your plan for drive shafts?
The suspension is something to think about 2 as depending on the frame you use you may need different suspension.
What year is the estate?
In theory there's not a lot to it but there are always little things that take time and money.
With the donor and frame they should be only big purchases everything else should be small enough but can add up.
its and 80 estate clubman.. planning on using the honda loom but leave the mini loom in also.. not great at wiring or diagrams so I will just use what i need from each.. as for drive shafts and suspension.. the kit says shafts are included there are wishbones shocks and springs also.. so Im just thinking that anything missing will be coming off civic and bolting directly onto frame.. i pressuume thats the idea of the subframe kit to make it a bolt on affair.. they say there is a steering rack as well and other parts secondhand included... I dont really need any of that but suppose it will be handy.. yes planning on using an inline pump like the ones on the mk3 escorts underneath Tank

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by keith » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:34 pm

Given all that's been said above and before you start down that road, consider a fully sorted supercharger install. Not the same power admittedly, but 90% of driving will never use the full power of a vtec.

Disclaimer: I've never built a vtec, not even driven one.
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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by aidstap » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:35 pm

I dont want to be the one to say it but i dont know how they would take the engine conversion for the NCT as there is a good bit of cutting of the inner wings required, I'm lucky i guess as mine is nct exempt.

I'd consider the supercharger or bmw head conversion but the d15 is a fine engine.

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:34 pm

keith wrote:Given all that's been said above and before you start down that road, consider a fully sorted supercharger install. Not the same power admittedly, but 90% of driving will never use the full power of a vtec.

Disclaimer: I've never built a vtec, not even driven one.
Supercharger on a 1275 engine is it You are referring to??? I have a 1275 bored out to 1330 low dish pistons ported and polished head high lift rockers lightened flywheel big bore stainless with gt manifold and hiff 44 carb.. was dissapointing till i recently upgraded the exhaust Manifold and carb.. Now its Massive Fun.. but Gearing is way too low and top speed isnt great.. the 5 speed gearboxes for them are thousands and Apparently not very good or reliable.. Mini spares sell them new and Jack knight did one.. which apparently break 5th gear alot.. the Reason im going for a d15 is its Economical when it shuts down to 12valve and powerful when opens up to 16 valve.. very smooth and Excellent gear box and will likely be cheaper than buying a 5 speed for a 1275.. let alone the cost of building a 1275 up to the 90- 100 hp I have in my mini..

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:43 pm

aidstap wrote:I dont want to be the one to say it but i dont know how they would take the engine conversion for the NCT as there is a good bit of cutting of the inner wings required, I'm lucky i guess as mine is nct exempt.

I'd consider the supercharger or bmw head conversion but the d15 is a fine engine.
To hell with the Nct lol.. they still havnt decided what exemptions if any they are going to keep.. pre 1980 cars may well have to be tested in future and what are they going to do take them all off the road.. once they start loosing revene from road tax and fuuel they may change their minds on that one.. Im sure some bracing of some sort would satisfy them on the Nct side.. given that the Mini uses subframes instead of chassis rails in modern Cars that as long as the subframe is structurally sound it would be acceptable.. But then I dont really Know and ill bet if u rang them they wouldnt either.. they have a handbook but its a bit vague on some things

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by woody » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:49 pm

That part of the NCT would come under the visual inspection which is open to the opinion / interpretation of the inspector. If he has any doubt he will fail it, if you have an engineers report he will accept that someone else is taking the blame. As a matter of interest do any of the vtec sub frames available carry TUV approval
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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:31 pm

woody wrote:That part of the NCT would come under the visual inspection which is open to the opinion / interpretation of the inspector. If he has any doubt he will fail it, if you have an engineers report he will accept that someone else is taking the blame. As a matter of interest do any of the vtec sub frames available carry TUV approval
Far as i know the Watsons one has been approved tuv in Germany they are so strict that tyres from crashed cars Cannot go back on road so we buy them here lol.. so i pressume it would pass here also

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by macker » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:55 pm

Just as an aside to the whole gearing thing with minis, I have a straight cut 4 speed box on my own mini (1380 stage 5ish) which I changed the final drive to a 3.1, that coupled with the 1.1 straight cuts means I can move a lot faster than standard minis, but in doing so I have lost some of the lower speed acceleration that you would get with a 3.44 F/D, running on 10' wheels.
a standard mini set up iirc is geared to somewhere around 96mph top end, my own will hit my rev limiter at 115mph (on a rolling road of course :wink: )
you don't really need a 5 speed :)
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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by armo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:19 pm

Looking over your questions and having done a b16a conversion for my bro i kinda have an idea of what your looking for
if your question is will you need to spend more than the price of the kit the answer is yes you will need a lot more
We used the allspeed kit (from memory €2200)
That covered subframe back engine mount drive shafts (honda inner mini outer) bottom arms and tie bars .
Everything els subframewise is standered mini (top arms shocks hubs brakes rubber donuts)
You will also need fuel pump
clutch master cylinder as the mini one sends the clutch fork too far .
the shell itself will need extra plates welded where the floor mounts bolt on.
Wiring wise we used mini and honda (mini for lights ect and honda for engine very little splicing but a lot of wires removed)
as for making a subframe yes it can be done but as said it will have to be made from your car
Hope some of that helps

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:44 pm

armo wrote:Looking over your questions and having done a b16a conversion for my bro i kinda have an idea of what your looking for
if your question is will you need to spend more than the price of the kit the answer is yes you will need a lot more
We used the allspeed kit (from memory €2200)
That covered subframe back engine mount drive shafts (honda inner mini outer) bottom arms and tie bars .
Everything els subframewise is standered mini (top arms shocks hubs brakes rubber donuts)
You will also need fuel pump
clutch master cylinder as the mini one sends the clutch fork too far .
the shell itself will need extra plates welded where the floor mounts bolt on.
Wiring wise we used mini and honda (mini for lights ect and honda for engine very little splicing but a lot of wires removed)
as for making a subframe yes it can be done but as said it will have to be made from your car
Hope some of that helps
Thanks Yes Seem to be getting a bit more grasp of whats involved.. in ways should be straight forward if using a subframe kit.. I dont mind spending more just trying to grasp what id have to be spending.. a bit of welding isnt going to break me.. and i have the Full civic for any parts needed there.. watsons kit includes a steering rack shocks and springs... I guess Ill just have to wing it and let the chips fall where they May.. im hoping if i get started this year all going well.. shell will be painted subframes installed with engine so have a rolling shell with a running engine.. Next year then... doors- windows- wheels- interior- lights- trim - bumpers all that stuff

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Re: Vtec Clubman Help

Post by williamt » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:46 pm

williamt wrote:
armo wrote:Looking over your questions and having done a b16a conversion for my bro i kinda have an idea of what your looking for
if your question is will you need to spend more than the price of the kit the answer is yes you will need a lot more
We used the allspeed kit (from memory €2200)
That covered subframe back engine mount drive shafts (honda inner mini outer) bottom arms and tie bars .
Everything els subframewise is standered mini (top arms shocks hubs brakes rubber donuts)


You will also need fuel pump
clutch master cylinder as the mini one sends the clutch fork too far .
the shell itself will need extra plates welded where the floor mounts bolt on.
Wiring wise we used mini and honda (mini for lights ect and honda for engine very little splicing but a lot of wires removed)
as for making a subframe yes it can be done but as said it will have to be made from your car
Hope some of that helps
Thanks Yes Seem to be getting a bit more grasp of whats involved.. in ways should be straight forward if using a subframe kit.. I dont mind spending more just trying to grasp what id have to be spending.. a bit of welding isnt going to break me.. and i have the Full civic for any parts needed there.. watsons kit includes a steering rack shocks and springs... I guess Ill just have to wing it and let the chips fall where they May.. im hoping if i get started this year all going well.. shell will be painted subframes installed with engine so have a rolling shell with a running engine.. Next year then... doors- windows- wheels- interior- lights- trim - bumpers all that stuff

Just out of interest what kind of stuff did you have to buy apart from subframe.. and any idea of cost?

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